Morgan Lewis Litigators Share How They Tackled Bias and Won

Morgan Lewis litigators Grace Speights and Robin Nunn have seen it all in their combined decades as prominent attorneys, while navigating the difficulties of being among the few Black women partners in a predominantly white and male industry.

People of color comprise less than 8% of equity partners among the firms who participated in a 2019 survey by the National Association for Law Placement. Black attorneys accounted for less than 2% of partners among the firms surveyed by NALP, while Black women made up less than 1%.

To get to the partnership in Big Law, Washington-based Speights and Nunn have taken different paths.

Speights began at Morgan Lewis in 1984 and rose through the ranks to manage the firm’s Washington office and then became head of its heavyweight global labor and employment practice. She’s worked on investigations and litigation throughout the #MeToo movement, most recently securing a landmark jury verdict for PBS in its legal fight against former host Tavis Smiley.

Nunn, who moved to Morgan Lewis this month, is a veteran of the Capital One and American Express legal departments. She works on complex civil litigation and enforcement litigation, as well as investigations, compliance, and consumer protection defense. She’s also carved out a niche working on matters involving technologies like blockchain and cryptocurrencies. She was co-leader of the supervision, enforcement and litigation practice at Davis Wright Tremaine, and chair of the consumer financial services practice at Dechert.

Speights and Nunn told Bloomberg Law about how they got to the top of their field, their experiences as litigators, and how the national focus on racial justice has impacted their work.

The interviews have been edited for clarity and length.

Bloomberg Law: Did you always know you were going to become a lawyer?

Grace Speights: My mother worked in a drapery factory in Philadelphia, and I went with her on Saturdays and holidays when there was no one else to take care of me. Seeing the factory conditions made me interested in change. I didn’t have any lawyers around me; the only lawyer I knew was Perry Mason, on television. At first, I wanted to be a pediatrician, but I didn’t like the college science courses, so I decided law school was for me.

Robin Nunn: My parents were both lawyers — they met taking the bar exam in Mississippi— but I wanted to be in international relations. I joined the State Department in 1999 out of college, and was posted to Nairobi after the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. Later I thought I could have more impact with a law degree so I applied to law school.

BL: Did you have mentors or people that encouraged you?

GS: I was a [summer] associate at Morgan Lewis, in Philadelphia, for my second summer and I took a lot of litigation assignments. After graduating from [George Washington University] law school, I clerked for Chief Judge Aubrey E. Robinson, Jr., at the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, where I got to sit in the courtroom every day and draft opinions back in chambers. It was amazing and the point where I knew I wanted to be in litigation.

RN: I knew from seeing my parents’ work in civil rights and military justice that I wanted to be a litigator. At University of Chicago law school, I joined every journal, worked as a research assistant to Judge Richard Posner, and was greatly influenced by Judge Ann Williams of the [U.S Court of Appeals for the] 7^th Circuit. Because of my interest in social impact litigation, I skipped a Big Law firm internship after my second year to intern at the NAACP Legal Defense Fund.

And I clerked for the [U.S Court of Appeals for the] 2^nd Circuit in New York, and later was an associate at Sullivan & Cromwell where Rodgin Cohen was a mentor. I was able to go into court on my own, take depositions and be first chair on some cases. I learned so much during six years there.

BL: Have you encountered intimidation or harassment on account of being a Black female attorney?

GS: People have confused me with a court reporter or a defendant, or told me to dress in a matronly way and to not wear much jewelry. The worst case was earlier in my career at a trial when opposing counsel, a white male, moved a large white board between me and the judge. When the judge asked him to move it so he could see me, the counsel said he would because, “She’s really looking good.”

The judge then said, “I don’t care how she looks and you shouldn’t either. Just move the board.” He later scolded the counsel, and told the counsel to write me an apology letter, which I still have.

As a woman, and a Black woman, you have to do a lot to gain credibility. I’ve had my share of people calling me “sweetie” or “girl.” There are judges who give total deference to male counsel. It’s gotten better, but there are some real bullies out there. As you become more seasoned, you don’t get upset; you call them out in a calm way.

RN: Last year, I was sitting in my office at another firm when an employee I didn’t know asked me what I was doing there. He refused to believe that as a Black woman I was sitting in my own office and was an equity partner. The person kept insisting that it couldn’t be right and I didn’t belong there, and kept asking others in the firm how I could be there. I felt like I was in a movie.

BL: How does that experience impact how you approach cases in which your client is accused of discrimination or harassment? Grace, you have been involved in some discrimination cases on behalf of major companies including Marriott, GM and JPMorgan Chase.

GS: I know some think that as a Black woman, how can I defend large corporations accused of discrimination or harassment? I’m a straight-shooter, and when clients hire me, they know that’s what they are going to get in their counsel. I call it the way I see it. And I advise my clients if they have internal workplace issues, and I advise them on what they need to do to fix it. You can hear it in my arguments at trial. You can see it in some of our investigation reports that have been made public. Those reports aren’t always the most flattering for our clients, but despite stereotypes, a lot of corporations want sincerely to do the right thing. They don’t want their corporate identity resting on the reputation of some bad actors.

RN: I hold a strong belief that everyone deserves representation. There are certain kinds of life experiences that one has when one is a woman or when one is Black that are simply not the same if you are a white person. I think it’s a red flag and something we need to deal with as a society when the life experiences of those who can most relate to discrimination and harassment are excluded from the discussions on the defense side in discrimination cases. I’ve helped companies grapple with discrimination claims. Clients hire me because they know I will be 110% dedicated to their matter and will get to the truth and, if necessary, help them fix it.

BL: What qualities do you need to be a successful litigator?

GS: You have to be confident, and be able to overcome inhibitions in the courtroom or at depositions. You have to be able to take over the room but not be too domineering so people don’t think you are this demanding person. It’s a real balance. When you add in racism, you have to show a lot of grit and resilience. I got that from my mother, who worked a tough job every day. A setback is an opportunity to grow, to learn from it and to do better. You learn that from growing up as I did.

Race can really get you off the track. There are still issues that can cause you to lose your confidence. It’s easy to look around and see there are not many people that look like you, and people do not include you. Being one of a few can be problematic.

RN: You have to be willing to prove yourself as a black woman to navigate the intertwined barriers at the intersection of race and gender. And the truth is that Black women have to be many things, one of which is strong to endure countless years of slavery, Jim Crow, and bias. I know that there are problems that are not going away anytime soon.

Often there is no one in the room who looks like me. Being Black and a woman has been both a challenge and a blessing. Coming from a background of being poor and Black, I work that much harder. When you have no one in your corner, you learn to fight. And successful litigators, like many subjected to racism and hardships, are fighters. They are problem solvers. They are creative and innovative, always looking for angles.

BL: How can law firms improve their track records on racial diversity and inclusion?

GS: The firm head, Jami McKeon, and I are working together on our “Mobilizing for Equality Task Force” that we formed in aftermath of George Floyd’s killing. Jami texted me that night, saying, “We have to do something. If we don’t do something, who will?” Hundreds of people in the firm have signed up to work on issues like access to education, voting rights, and impact litigation.

At the same time, it caused us to look inward and focus on getting more minorities through pipelines, which are very important. It’s not just the hiring, it’s the retention and promotion. We have to be intentional and deliberate; it’s not going to happen by itself. You have to work with Black associates and introduce them to clients.

And, you have to hold partners accountable. We have to make sure they know what’s expected. It’s very easy for people to want to work with people that they know.

RN: I’ve always been amazed at how little progress the profession has made. Programs exist to increase the number of minority lawyers, but they are not working because firms are not, for example, recruiting at Howard or other black schools, or they are rejecting 85% of minority applicants after screening them, or they are rejecting people who are not a “cultural fit,” whatever that means.

If you have to convince eight white men you can be their golf partner, you are going to get the same result. It’s not accidental, it’s systematic. Maybe no one will say the word, but it’s racist.